Din Djarin & Grogu Early Impressions
The Din Djarin and Grogu expansion launches today, and to celebrate we wanted to cover some initial impressions we’ve had from putting them on the table them since their full kit was spoiled a month or so ago. For an overview of Din and Grogu’s stats, equipment options, and command cards, I’d highly recommend checking out the Fifth Trooper blog post covering their spoilers (and more!) when they were revealed.
Joshua Devera (@Peregrine)
First up is Joshua Devera (@Peregrine), TLD admin and 5280 adoptee who has played 5 games with Din and Grogu in his Invader League Season 9 list:
The List
The design of this list wasn’t intended to find the most competitive version of Din in Rebels, but to perform a stress test on Grogu. So why Grogu? The preeminent function of Grogu is to nourish the defensive liabilities within a list. With the increase in dice volume from Pykes and the risk of alpha strike from Blizzard Force, extra defensive tools become a necessity for survival. The Hand Thing is that tool. It can boost your army by
Allowing Din the freedom to be more aggressive at hunting his bounty
Unleashing Sabine from a Rebel officer with vigilance and giving her freedom to play more aggressively with Din
Allowing Clan Wren to choose an Aim for Retinue instead of dodge
Stopping early alpha strikes Bikes or Tac Strike and Unlimited Range Attacks (Overwhelming Barrage or Orbital Strike) which pose serious threats to white save units.
With a safety net in place for the Mandalorians, this list was designed to play aggressively on mobile objectives (Breakthrough, Bombing Run, Recover the Supplies) or move aggressively against bounty targets on attrition matches (Payload, Vaps, Hostage, and Key Positions to an extent). After 5 matches, I've had mixed feelings and results towards the list and Grogu.
How have you been using Din? What has been his role in your games?
Din’s usage evolved after my five games with him. The original plan was to use him to capture bounties and zone Jedi. What I found was that while the latter was within Din’s capabilities, the ability to hunt bounties was impeded by having to babysit Grogu. The bounty targets that I played against were either back line units (Officers, Sniper Iden), Force Users, or other bounty hunters (mostly Boba). The issue with collecting bounty against the back line units, was that it also meant that I was bringing a victory point to my opponent. And sure, Grogu did offer protection (I never lost Din, lost Grogu once but no VP was claimed), but it felt necessary to play him more conservatively in the beginning turns of the game to protect the Victory Point. This proved to be counter to the design of the list.
Where has he been the most effective?
With the realization that I could not use him effectively as a bounty hunter with Grogu, I then shifted his role to an opportunistic fighter and Force User insurance. I want to emphasize, this is how he is most effective with Grogu, not without his little friend. Din was very effective in this role, threatening any units that came too close to my lines or too far away from theirs. While waiting for opportunities, The Hand Thing was able to prevent incoming damage and This Is The Way allowed for engagement when the opportunity existed. Examples of this are collecting a bounty on an overextended Boba Fett, defeating an overly aggressive AA5 by attacking the Weak Point, and stopping two B1 box carriers who overextended to secure boxes.
Din also acted as a “false” linebacker against hero units. The presence of the Amban and bounty also made force users/other bounty hunters think twice before approaching my lines. The threat against units like Tauntauns was lessened as they had the wound count that made shooting the Amban less useful and tying them up less burdensome as it would take multiple rounds for Din to get out of melee. Grogu was also used on multiple occasions to “corner peak” Amban shots, one which achieved victory on a Turn 6.
Where has he fallen short or not been as effective?
We’ve discussed some of the weaknesses of Grogu in my playstyle, but I was severely disappointed by the effect of Latent Power. After 20+ attempts of Latent Power (30 rounds played), I managed to restore 2 wounds in total and only immobilized a unit once. The problem with Latent Power was the opportunity. I rolled surges 3 times, but only once when an enemy unit was in range. I rolled 5 blanks, but only was in range to restore wounds twice. Don’t make the mistake of thinking Latent Power is a 50/50 ability. This isn’t to say that the
I like Those Odds was also very disappointing. The likely scenario is one unit in melee and shooting another unit at range for 1-2 wounds. Best case scenario is if two units are in melee with Din. My opponent would have to willingly engage din with a second unit or I would have to Force Push an enemy into Din, both which seem unlikely. This scenario is also further limited if Grogu is absent, as there is less room to engage Din. The command card also takes up a card slot. There were two games when Sabine would have rather had activation control and Recover as opposed to Din dealing those extra wounds. Finally, the lack of dodge protection from this card isn’t just an inconvenience, it is the deal breaker.
I have mixed feelings on the amban as a melee weapon as well. I won three out of my five games, two of the losses were partially due to the offensive limitations of the Amban in melee. One required me to defeat Inferno Squad with Din and Clan Wren over 2 rounds, however I was only able to deal 5 wounds. The other required me to defeat a naked squad of vets in 1 turn and I dealt no wounds. (there were other reasons I lost this, but this was the most directly related to Din). Yes, the attacks against Inferno were unlucky, however I would be remiss if I didn’t admit to pondering on “what would have been” had I brought the Beskar Spear instead of the amban.
Any unique plays or strategies you want to discuss?
The most unique strategy offensively was using Grogu to “shoot” the Amban rifle. Confirmed by the rules forum, either Din or Grogu can be used to satisfy the Line of Sight requirements for the Amban rifle. It was mentioned earlier that the Amban achieved victory on Turn 6. The scenario was Grogu peeking around a corner after din’s move and defeating a final pyke mini. The pyke had 2 dodges and was in range of Padme’s exemplar for a third. It would have been impossible to defeat the pyke with Din’s pistol, so Grogu took the shot to defeat the pyke.
One important note is to be mindful of where you place Grogu. Latent Power and The Hand Thing require Line of Sight and Range 1 from the Grogu miniature, not from the unit. So be mindful of where you place him to maximize his usage.
What upgrade tweaks or list tweaks are you considering?
For most of my legion career, I have played either Empire or Droids. Since the end of last year, I've almost exclusively been an Iden player. So I’m abandoning rebel Din all together and am going to try him out in Empire. But, if I were to continue trying out Din with Grogu, this is likely the list I’d try next.
The Hand Thing has a lot of potential with wookiees as it gives them access to deflect and surge block. Din and Grogu can play a little bit more aggressively as the wookiee warriors can provide better support to an engaged din than Sabine or Clan Wren.
Stephen Cobb (@ASpaceViking)
Second is Stephen Cobb (@ASpaceViking) who’s with played 5 games with Din (sans Grogu) in Total Escape Game’s Legion League Season 11.
The List
The concept for the list was bidding for blue player and forcing mobility focused objectives such as Recover the Supplies, Bombing Run, and Breakthrough to capitalize on the strengths of double mandalorians. The list is also well rounded enough to play other objectives like Intercept the Transmissions and Payload due to being composed of entirely troopers and having significant melee threats to favor me in a close range battle. The ideal circumstance for this list would involve be utilizing my ability to dish out 4 immobilize tokens per turn to stop an enemy in their tracks and prevent them from scoring while the rest of my hyper mobile army wins me the game. The triple Wookiees add additional mobility, help threat saturate with Din, and can tar pit any potential enemy force users. Another ‘dream scenario’ with this was to try and pull off using Sabine’s Explosions followed up by Din’s Whistling Birds (more on Whistling Birds later…), to try and take out a significant chunk of my opponents army.
How have you been using Din? What has been his role in your games?
Din has been an anti-trooper melee cannonball. I’ve used his one pip to dive him into melee with a corp unit or pierce susceptible commander (e.g. a Capo or Imperial Officer), then I try to keep Din safely engaged by meleeing with the Amban to trigger immobilize. While he’s buried in melee, I use him to dish out damage to nearby targets with his versatile pistol which can quickly whittle away targets. A last - first in this fashion can easily diminish the effectiveness of two acts (or threaten a soft bounty target) while also opening space for Sabine and the Wookiees to pick apart my opponent or win an objective. In a few Bombing Run matches I’ve used Din to quickly score my bomb then jump into the fray turn 2-3.
I really like the decision tree that the keywords independent, tactical, long shot and lethal (x 2, on the knife and pistol) pose. You really have to make interesting choices about what effects you want to use those aim tokens for each activation. Do you want Din to be a hyper mobile skirmisher to try and pick off an unsuspecting unit utilizing Din’s speed 3, jump, and long shot? Do you want to save the aims for lethal? Or do you need them to reroll those fickle black dice when meleeing with the amban to ensure you trigger immobilize? It makes him incredibly flexible while also forcing you to make interesting choices.
Where has he been the most effective?
Mulching troops while staying buried in melee. He feels like a grievous with lower DPS, but higher consistency and more tricks up his sleeve. His speed with jump also allows him to be a more flexible on objective play.
Din seems most effective to me as a truly independent operative who is disrupting your opponent while a true focus piece achieves your primary goals. I think outside of his 1 pip, This is the Way he is fairly command card independent, and when he is safely buried in melee with an immobilized target, he becomes much more timing neutral than I expected. I would contrast him with a more much timing sensitive focus piece such as a force user.
Where has he fallen short or not been as effective?
The Amban card effect (the infinite range ‘auto wound’) has not been useful for me in my first five games. I’ve tried using it twice and blanked both shots (it doesn’t trigger on a surge, so it has a 25% chance to fail). I find that the most potent text on the card is ‘immobilize 2’ and the special card effect is nice for staying flexible in terms of threatening objectives (e.g. picking off a lone unit leader on breakthrough at the end of the game) and is nice insurance in case I run up against a Palpatine or Yoda.
Whistling Birds feels much more situational in actual use on the table than I originally anticipated. It on average deals about one wound for every 3 models in the squad it targets. When targeting b1s, this probably pays dividends, but in my games, often one or two of my targets have been single model units (officer, mortar, etc), where the effect is hardly worth it. It also costs an action to trigger, and, unless you have comms relay equipped, using it means you’re giving up an aim and a dodge from independent. So far, those tradeoffs haven’t been worth it to me. In many circumstances I didn’t want to spend the action for the card effect so I could instead either take an aim for lethal/dice consistency, or because I wanted to move and engage a new target after attacking for my first action. Depending on the list, I can easily see leaving Whistling Birds out of your command hand. While its a bummer that the card effect doesn’t seem as good in practice, it does mean that Din is much more command card neutral than I originally expected. Din’s 2 pip, I Like Those Odds, is better than Whistling Birds, but is still somewhat situational to me. In my limited experience it has meant giving up a dodge (from independent) in order to take one extra pistol shot at a different target. This effect is nice, but isn’t essential for Din to be effective. In all honesty, I could see running Din with just his one and two pip, or even just his one pip. If you’re running him along side a command card hungry focus piece, he could be a more command card neutral secondary threat.
While immobilizing an enemy force user such as an opposing Vader sounds juicy in theory, in practice I don’t think Din wants to be anywhere near them. Force users can throw off his main trick - staying engaged with immobilized targets - due to force push. Meaning even if you immobilize your target, they are probably force pushing Din out into the open where he is liable to be shot off the table. He also wastes his piercing dice against force user’s pierce immunity. I’d only engage Din with a force user if immobilizing them meant something larger for the game state (e.g. preventing them from influencing an objective), and would typically focus on picking off squishier corp or special forces units with him instead.
Any unique plays or strategies you want to discuss?
Last - firsting Din with his one pip, This is the Way, to dive him into a mortar or officer is incredible. If they don’t have a potent melee linebacker nearby, you pretty much mulch your opponents back line with impunity. You intentionally only use the Amban melee profile (plus tenacity?) to immobilize and soften up, but not kill the target you’re engaged with, while you also shoot your pistol at another squad. Your opponent has no choice but to throw weak melee dice back at you (which you dodge or roll Beskar saves against), and your mando is safely buried and ready to get to work. Once you’re in, he can start whittling down multiple squads and make it incredibly difficult for your opponent to respond to him, particularly if they’re relying on a gun-line.
What upgrade tweaks or list tweaks are you considering?
It’s become clear to me that while Din is potent, he is not a focus piece. He works best as a secondary threat who can independently operate and open up space for another unit (Sabine or the wookiees in my list) to achieve their goals. While I like the flexible threat that Sabine offers, I’m considering testing out other focus pieces with Din such as Luke.
The flame projector has been a question mark for me. It seems invaluable if I dive Din into a squad of B1s or if I really need to focus my dice on one target to wipe a trooper squad, but I haven’t encountered that situation yet. The challenge I’ve encountered is that it does not have the versatile keyword like Din’s pistol does, so when Din is engaged, I can only use the flame projector on the target I’m engaged with. Typically I’ve been meleeing the target I’m engaged with with the amban while also shooting a different target with my pistol, so using the flame projector would come at the cost of the pistol shot. Additionally, If you’re engaged with a potential bounty target or an emplacement trooper, it only means one additional die as well. I haven’t encountered a situation where I’ve wanted to use it yet, but I’m going to keep testing it.
I’ve loved tenacity and comms relay on Din. The way I’ve been playing Din, he’s been engaged most of the game and the extra red die really amps up the damage the Amban can do. I’ve often found that Din’s activation has been more timing neutral once he’s buried with an immobilized target, that I really want the independent tokens, and I often need another unit, like Sabine or a wookiee, to have the order control instead - hence the comms relay.
An 11 point bid feels a little small for this har of a mobility skew. I’m considering where I could drop 5pts or so to increase the bid moving forward, but haven’t decided where.
Have your own thoughts or comments? Jump into the 5280 discord and let us know!
Written by: Joshua Devera (@Peregrine) & Stephen Cobb (@ASpaceViking)